Episode 30: Healing Rituals for your Body and Soul
HANNAH: Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Friends Missing Friends. Today I talked to Amy Peele, a friend and author of funny and entertaining medical mystery novels; her latest book “Hold” came out in 2022. In this interview, we talked about grieving friends, healing rituals, and how important it is to take care of your body as well as your mind while you’re grieving. For instance, I learned that there’s something called grief massages! That could be a really good gift for someone by the way, whether it’s for yourself, or for someone else. Because grief can get caught in the body. I really enjoyed talking with her; I hope you learn something new, and I hope you enjoy. Thanks for listening.
AMY: My grief started as a young kid only because my dad left all of us so basically six kids and my mom. And so that when I was little so I think as I recall, that might be Mike, besides a grandfather dying and that was kind of that, but from what I think where I really actively needed to take care of myself and get help was when my mother died in 2011. And, you know, I was very close to her and she was my mother and a friend. And so, and she always told me she was gonna live to 102 when she was very healthy, except she had breast cancer, cured that and then got bone cancer long after but didn't really tell anyone or she didn't know. I think she knew she just knew that there wasn't going to be a good ending to that. So my sister Helen and I helped her leave the planet. She was in hospice, she's a nurse she hated, you know, anything to do with hospice, but I would say if anyone listens: Hospice is probably the best thing you can ever deal with anybody who's in kind of a terminal phase and if they get better, you just get discharged from hospice but you shouldn't have this “If you go you're dead meat” kind of feeling that people respond to.
My mother did get to the end, not happily but she had to go in hospice at the hospital and my sister and I are both nurses. So we had to decide do we want her screaming in pain, or do we want to give her morphine so that she's not in pain, and knowing that when you give people morphine under the tongue, it slows the respiration down and eventually can cause them to stop breathing, not like instant. But I wasn't gonna my mother being like, I heard her screaming from the phone. So there's confusion around that, but I think anybody who is dealing with death or is currently struggling, I think hospice is amazing. It has resources.
And then when she did die, I gave the eulogy and kind of planned everything because most of my siblings just couldn't. They weren't able to and I just stepped up. So they wouldn't have done it any other way. And then I found out through someone who I got massages from that there was a gal who did body massages for people while they were grieving. Prachant is her name. Because when someone close to you dies, you hold the grief in certain parts of your body, whether you're aware of it or not. You do and so we talked on the phone, and she does things this thing called degriefing, degriefing and what that means is that all of us as humans throughout our life have lost people, pets, things. And if you don't grieve it, it accumulates. So when you have a really big loss, like I lost my mother, she died.
She had me make a list of all the losses in my life, which I really didn't want to do, but I think it was really healthy. Because it's just like, oh, because we we’re humans, so there's going to be loss of some level, whether it's our favorite cat or dog or our loved one. And then she worked with me, because her point is do you need to degrief, like acknowledge all the past griefs you have as well as the current one that's kind of obviously losing my mother was a big deal. And she at the time was doing also bodywork. So it was actually extremely healing to have that and the work with her and just telling my story and have someone listen to it. And also, I always you know, my brother, Bob lost, we lost our nephew a long time ago but one of the things they tell people who are grieving is to have someone give you a massage every once in a while because you're not in your body. I don't know about you when you lost your friends and stuff, but because it's such a surreal world. And it is. My dad died. My mother died. It's like the world keeps going by really fast but I didn't feel fast. I don't know how you were, you know when your friends died.
HANNAH: Honestly my mind is blown. I don't know why but I've never heard about degriefing or grief massage. Never heard of it. It makes so much sense!
AMY: Yeah. Well, because we feel things and sometimes we stuff them—guilty. But when somebody dies, it's not like it's negotiable. I haven't heard anyone coming back down and saying “Heidi ho”, but our bodies are probably the smartest part of us, our mind tries to override things. “Oh, you’ll be fine.” People are at a loss for what to say. I get it. So they say things like “oh, she's in peace now she's not in pain,” which is true. But I think each of us has our very own kind of grieving, I really do.
But knowing there's a toolbox of things that I think is really helpful. So I'd say the body massage and just working through past griefs as well as the current one to kind of release some of the sadness because our emotions are in our body. So if we don't acknowledge and try to work, acknowledge and heal, they'll stay there. So I think those were just two big things that helped me when my mom died.
And then when Karen died, I knew she was going to die, but she had a brain tumor. And she and I were friends because our kids were in preschool together. And then before she died, she asked me to organize her celebration of life because she knew I'd be funny and also organized. So I did that we did that my husband and my son helped us and we do so on zoom because the pandemic, but there were over 100 people because they have relatives in Italy. So that was also very cathartic because she gave a list of people she wanted to speak and I didn't know anybody except one other person besides the family because they were all friends from her past.
So it was kind of like a gift because I called each one and kind of explained the format of the celebration of life on zoom and how did you know Karen and what did you do, so I kinda got to know about her past in a way I'd never known before because our point in time started when we met and the kids were two years old. So that was actually a gift. And then I was pretty sad and and I talked to a therapist because I think therapy is very healthy, taking care of your mind and your body. And she gave me some really good tips.
So I think you have dollar stores. I think everyone has dollar stores wherever they live but I just went to the dollar store and got those big tall, I'm Jewish but the big tall Catholic candles. And I have a picture of Karen and I lit the candle and it just brought me peace seeing the candle and I put it on my mantel and a picture of us and I just kept them going because the candles are not that expensive. And just seeing a lit candle was very comforting. So that ritual. And then the other thing I did is I planted a lavender bush in my backyard, and I just call it Karen. So when I go by I always take a little piece and say “Hey Karen, how you doing?” because it's living and it's comforting, and the candle, and I'm in touch with her but in a very kind of nurturing way.
HANNAH: Wow, I was shocked when you said the bush because I did the exact same thing for my friend.
AMY: Really?
HANNAH: Yeah and I visit the bush and I touch it and I'm like thinking in my head “people are probably think I'm crazy.” They're like, “here's that girl talking to the tree again.” Because they don't know the story behind it.
AMY: Right, right. Well, I'm in the backyard. So if anyone's peeking over then too bad for them but it's healing when you do that.
HANNAH: It really is and it's become a tradition for the past couple of years where every year on her birthday, which was also the day of her death, I visit the tree and I'll bring a friend and we'll just kind of sit by the tree and light some incense and just kind of talk. I don't really have a structure but we'll just talk about her and it's been, it's like a ritual and it's a physical representation. And yeah, it is really nice.
AMY: It is it really is. It's very nurturing, I think. And then my other friend who I was close to Sandy, again, whether through the schools where the kids were, she had breast cancer. She cleared that and then years later she got bone cancer. They gave her two years, but she lived eight. Now her family is very religious. Her son is a priest. They did go to Lourdes she got the waters and all the prayers and I think I do believe in the adage of prayer and healing. And then I you know I took her to chemo a couple times when she, you know; we stopped for two months after when she was getting chemo and was available then we would do things depending on her energy was just what do you feel like, I'm too tired. That's fine. I think just being with the people while they're here and hearing them. “I'd love to see you but I just am tired.” I mean I'm glad because we used to go out for dinner and have a cocktail. It's kind of one of our rituals. And one night she called it was a Wednesday school night. I mean, that's still school. And she asks if I feel like a martini. I said, “Okay, I'm coming over.”
So we have a Martini and she was like I'd like another half. Okay, so that was the last Martini I had with her because she kept getting sicker. If I had just said, “Oh, I have to get up in the morning” and do that, Or can't or—I'm so glad I just didn't even do that because that was really the last time we had a drink together and hung out. We didn't do anything big. We sat in the chairs with our feet up and drank martinis.
And then she really really fought the big fights. We go on vacation with her family and finally she called me and she said “I just can't do this. I can't do this. It's just too much.” So I respected that and close to her family. And so, you know, she was real clear. She was so organized. I mean, she had a binder that she put together about when I'm gone. Every single thing you can imagine, the doctors the dentists passwords, the banks, any paperwork the house because she ran the whole family and all that. So everything that needed to be done at any time was all spelled out in this binder. And it's so responsible like, that's really responsible.
HANNAH: Oh my gosh, yeah.
AMY: I mean, she had time because she was so tired. She could sit and just watch TV or sleep. She didn't have much energy, but she wanted to make sure that everything was handled. I was blown away when I heard. So. I've been doing the ritual of the candle lighting and the picture of us. You know, she died in March. So you know, obviously it's not a year yet. But, you know, it's weird when people you know, because you're here and then you're not it's so, it's just like they had this whole life of experiences and time together with your friend and then they're not on the planet anymore. It's really tough.
HANNAH: It’s really, really tough. And you brought up a good point earlier about how important it is to take care of your body and your mind. Because I don't think I thought about my body at all. Like, at all. Not even for a second, like I was probably super disconnected.
AMY: Of course your mind and you're just like trying to, we know they died. They're not here, but the whole thing. Like even when I look around my space, I bought the dresser with her. I bought another thing with her. I would always call or say “we're gonna get this on sale.” So she kind of always knew where the sales were. All this stuff, I would just pick up the phone, “Hey, Sandy, I'm going to da-da-da-da” or “where did you get that?” It's like that ceases. It comes to a screeching halt, right? That doesn't mean I don't think about her.
But yeah, unless you really know, you're probably not in your body when you lose somebody I don't think. I was but what I learned was that then that's when you get a massage and if people can't afford massages because some are cheap, some are not. There's always massage schools where there are students that need to do a certain number of massages around the country. So you go and sign up to be one of their guinea pigs. But yeah, the body work I think is really important.
HANNAH: And that there's even specific people out there who do it specifically for grieving people. That’s total news to me.
AMY: Yeah, you have to ask around but yeah, because I didn't know that. I never heard of it before until someone said, like, Oh, that makes sense. But you know, it's not on your radar screen.
HANNAH: And what you just said too about how everything just comes to a screeching halt. Like, even if you know they're gonna die. It's still a screeching halt. Like, it's kind of like nothing can prepare you for it.
AMY: Exactly. Really. But it is like I remember after my dad died, I was in Chicago. I'm driving and I'm looking and it feels like people are going really fast, like walking faster. Because my mind was, like you said, it just stops. You know, just trying to process it.
HANNAH: Everything seems so absurdly fast. It's like “Wait, what are we all racing to?” It doesn't make any sense. It's bizarre. Did you have any experience with grief groups as well?
AMY: No, not really. Now my other job long ago was I was a nurse transplant coordinator. And I was the one who spoke to families after they were told their loved one was brain dead. So that was my job. So to go in and say, not knowing and while obviously, you know, if you decide you want to donate their loved your loved ones organs, I can facilitate that. But if you decide not to, then that's fine, too. It's the right decision. So that was part of my career. Is being with present with people who just found out their loved one’s brain dead. And it was like a sacred space because that's the time we just have to be 100% present and clear. So that's what I did, part of my career was around death. So I talked to other transplant coordinators and we felt it was heavy duty, but the bookends of our career where somebody had to die. They die, motorcycle accident or whatever. The family donated the organs, so for the family sometimes that helped them make sense out of a senseless heaviness and the grief and the loss they were having.
They would then donate and then I would be the one writing a letter that your kidney went into a 32-year-old woman with two kids or their heart went to somebody, so it was like their loved one lived on. So, it's bittersweet but the satisfaction of seeing somebody who otherwise would be dead from end stage organ failure, live and not just live, thrive, just gave me such an appreciation for life and all the everyday things that we have to be grateful for.
HANNAH: Absolutely.
AMY: Now did you find a grief group that you went to after your friend died?
HANNAH: I found one honestly, maybe I'll try again. And it wasn't bad. It was fine. But I don't know, I think I maybe was searching for something that a grief group couldn't necessarily provide, or could only provide in a very small way for a limited period of time, which was a sense of community. And there was some of that for sure. But it was also like, you know, I didn't stay in touch with any of them and it only lasted four weeks. And there was no one else there who had lost a friend. It was people who had lost parents and spouses. So I was able to connect about grief in general, but I think part of me wanted to connect with someone who also was going through the same specific type of grief. So there just wasn't the right space for that particular desire, but I definitely found it healing, I just I think I'm always looking for more just in everything.
AMY: That's not a bad thing because when you do have a friend who's died, I think for me because we had a group of friends so we each we grieved differently, but we collectively all knew how sad it was.
HANNAH: But I'm glad that you had mutual friends. Was that healing to be able to kind of grieve separately and together?
AMY: A little bit, each of us were close to her in a different way with Karen. Her son got married last year and they had a beautiful table right in that reception with her picture and candles and it's just nice to linger there. My friend Norma, she couldn't even look at it. Because Karen and Norma were very, very close. So she's like “I can't I just can't,” I’m like “Okay, I just wanted you to know it was there and not head to the reception and all of a sudden you stop in your tracks,” you know? So it helped. It's just weird because I think grieving is partially solo event, you know, you had the relationship you had with your friend, and that's different than any of your other friends may have had with them.
Even though collectively we could talk about it. But I have to say depending on who you are on the planet, and how you grew up and whatever death you were exposed to in your childhood, children, teenagers, I think we all have our own infrastructure, mentally, physically, around loss, and I think that informs how we can grieve and then also learn, like I learned about de-grieving and then I learned about body massage and I learned because I got help, I asked a therapist.
Because the ritual I think, for whatever persons grieving from the friend is a key thing and whatever that ritual like yours is to go by once a year and say hi to the bush and talk with your friend about your friend who died, and when my friend Sandy died, I planted a lilac bush in the front yard because I love lilacs I’m from the Midwest. We haven't got any flowers yet, but I'm sure they're coming. And you know, I think just seeing what other people do or hearing about it will help people formulate their own prescription of how they're going to deal with the grief and journaling. I journaled. When my mom died I journaled a lot and Karen my friend and Sandy died. I journal a lot in the mornings, but you know I just wrote about them and what I missed, you know, just let the words flow and the tears flow and that's very cathartic.
HANNAH: It is, it is. Yeah, and I think that you're absolutely right, like there's an individual and a communal but it's mostly individual. Because yeah, every relationship is completely and totally unique and no one will ever really understand it. And that's one thing that's been really hard for me is that I know that no one who's alive today understands the relationship I had with my friend. And that's kind of frustrating because I want the world to understand you know, like, I love to feel understood.
AMY: Yes.
HANNAH: Yeah. But my friend was the only one who understood.
AMY: Also, we’re Jewish. And they have a really beautiful tradition when you lose somebody. You wear a pin, a black little ribbon pin, but part of the ribbon’s torn and you wear it outside on your coat or your shirt depending on the weather and when people see it, they know that you're hurting so even if they don't know you; it's a visual sign that that person is grieving. And in the Jewish tradition, if you go to temple, they say the name of a loved one that you lost every year on that anniversary of their death. They say if anyone has lost somebody this week, please stand. If anyone's lost anybody in the last month, please stand…visually, you see everyone's losing people and that you're not alone. No matter how hard the grief is, that it was hard. And when people started standing up, even though I didn't know some of them, it was just comforting because I knew there were other people in the room that just had a loss.
HANNAH: That's so important, that visual reminder because our grief and our pain is invisible.
AMY: Yeah, exactly.
HANNAH: One thing I've been kind of thinking a lot about recently is asking for what you need, which is really hard, just in general. And it can especially apply to this because a lot of times just because people don't know what to say, which I totally understand. We'll get advice when we don't want advice or all these things and then it was like this year, I was like, Oh, I could just ask for exactly what I need. Instead of just hoping that they can just do it without me telling them.
AMY: Reading your mind.
HANNAH: Exactly. Yeah, people can't read my mind. And they don't necessarily know I'm grieving. I'm not wearing a pin so they might not even know.
AMY: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I'm pretty good about asking for what I need it but I've been married 35 years so my husband can kind of tell, which is great. You know if I'm just hurting, so I know, and I’ll cry when I cry. I mean, I did a lot of crying. And that's okay. It's very healing to the mind and the body. But asking for what you need. Sometimes, you know, whether you just don't want to go to something. But it's safe to just cry around friends that knew, like Sandy. They knew and they just looked at me and they knew I was hurting. You know, they just knew. So yeah, but I think advocating for yourself and saying “I'm a little tender right now.” At least telling people how you're feeling if you're able to sometimes you don't even know yourself because it's such a foggy brain. Right?
HANNAH: Yeah, but yeah, saying being able to say “no, I can't do this. I can't go to this event.” Whatever it is. Or going somewhere and just giving them a heads up. “Hey, I'm grieving right now, I'm very tender.” I think we don't do that very much. I don't remember if I ever did that, actually.
AMY: Yeah, that's a hard one. It's a hard one.
HANNAH: Was there any particular type of support that you wish you had when your friends passed, or do you feel like you had really good and helpful support?
AMY: Well I think I had good support because I'm part of a community of friends and my husband and our, you know, we're not really religious but having the infrastructure where we would wear the black ribbon and then could go to temple and cry, had a place to go. I had a therapist, so I was able to get some advice. And mostly, yeah, I think I was lucky because when my mom died, I learned about more things like I talked about. And so when my friends died, I had some tools on board. Like even if you know someone who’s lost a friend, you can give them a journal. Like my aunt gave me a journal. And it was lovely because I ended up writing and I wrote to my mother, you know, when she died. Just “hi mom, I wish you were here.” I would tell you that and even with friends, “you're not gonna believe what He did this time, Sandy.”
But journaling, even, you know, everyone's kind of has their own bar of I don't want help. I'm doing it alone. Or maybe I'll take a little help or whatever. But again, I'm at the age that I know, speaking my feelings and I'm not always aware I mean, I was very angry and I know they were going to die and I know she died. And so I still was angry because it's part of the grieving process, but I really feel lucky that I felt like I had a lot of resources that could help me. It won't take away the sting, but it's comforting.
HANNAH: It helps you not feel quite so alone.
AMY: If it's like a hot cup of tea and like a candle, and having somebody remind you to slow down because you know me and you are going like bat out of hell half the time getting a million things done. Like, that's easy to do, but sometimes you got to turn it off or slow it down. You know what I mean?
HANNAH: Uh-huh. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I wish we got more days off work for grieving. Yeah. I don't know about you, but I only took two days off and I should have taken more.
AMY: I well, with my mom. I thought I could go back to work and I couldn’t, so I had enough sick time PTO I just thought I was ready and I wasn't with my friends because I was already retired. I was my own boss and sometimes being your own boss: not always a nice boss. Now “you gotta get this written.” “You have a deadline, doesn't matter.” Which really happened with the third book that just came out for me. Because during writing it Karen died and my friend Sandy died, but I had a pub date. So I would just sit at my computer and write and cry. Because, you know, I had made a commitment and I had a date and I'll just never forget, like I told the publisher and I was working with a book coach. I was like, Wow, this just letting them know, this is what's happening. And I made my deadline. It was a little tardy, some things but you know, I was aware that I just let myself cry. It was like creativity and crying at the same time.
HANNAH: That sounds so tough.
AMY: It was. I’m just so glad the book’s done. And I dedicated it to my friend Sandy. So that was good. Her family loved that I did that. Mentioned Karen in it. Yeah. I think if you can slow down find the time, even after getting off from work to just slow it down. And nurture yourself. I think that's the best gift you can give yourself.