Episodes 44 and 45 - The Holographic Heart: Honoring and Remembering our Friends

LISTEN TO PART 1 of the episode

LISTEN TO PART 2 of the episode

HANNAH: How has your experience of grieving a friend been different than grieving family members?

SUZANNE: The potential of life. So, for example, one of the things, like my friend, when she passed, she was fifty-six years old. And as far as I'm concerned, that is way too young to pass. And she had two sons in their early twenties, who still needed, still wanted mom in their life, and she really regretted that she wasn't able to be at their weddings. That was her biggest thing. She really wanted to at their weddings. And so the potential of that and also there was some guilt too, because I was like, “Was I good enough friend? Did I do enough? Did I, could I have done more? Could I have reached out more? Could I, would I have been a better friend? What did I need to do? So there was some thought around that.

A family member, my most recent family member who passed was my father. He passed three years ago now. And he had been sick for a long time. So had my friend. She had been sick for a long time. But my father, he was ready to go, whereas my friend wasn't ready to go. He had had a long happy life. My friend was still looking for a love match And she still had so much more to do in this world, I think. And I know that she wanted to. So, whereas my father was he was done, he had felt that he had done everything that he wanted to.

And I think that's probably the biggest. My father was older and had lived a happy life. My friend was younger, and she still had so much potential.

HANNAH: Yeah, yeah, that's really hard. Yeah said you were wondering and worrying about whether you did enough or whether you were a good enough friend. I feel like that's often more of a question mark when it's not a blood relation because the definition of the relationship is more of a gray area, I feel like. Yeah, I don’t know. Do you kind of feel that way?

SUZANNE: Absolutely, yeah. And you know, too, to give myself a little bit of relief, she pushed me away a little bit because she didn't want to feel like she was a burden, which was not the case, but that's the way that she felt in the end. And I remember very distinctly one day she said “You don't need to keep calling and checking on me,” and I was a little annoyed. I was like, “Well, of course, I'm going to keep calling and checking on you,” but I left her alone for a little bit. And then when I called a couple of weeks later, she just didn't return my call. And then I kept reaching out and reaching out, and she didn't until closer to the end. So that's what also caused me to go, “Did I do enough?” Whereas my dad, I would show up at his house and spend time with him. Because you know that's what you're supposed to do, right? The daughter should show up. Whereas my friend I didn't. I didn't. I didn't realize that she was as close to being at her end of life than she that she was.

HANNAH: Oh man, and that's so hard because if someone tells you, you know, to give them space, you want to respect that, right? Like, but it might be different if your dad asked for space, you might be like, “Well, I'm showing up anyway,” just because it's a different relationship. I don't know.

SUZANNE: Yeah, I think it is because like mom was there. So she would say “well when are you coming?” So you know it was the command performance. You show up.

HANNAH: Oh, yeah.

SUZANNE: Whereas my friend never did that. She never said “When are you coming? When are we going to get together?” You know, you take people at face value when they say “this is what I want,” you listen to their words. And then found out you know, in her end days she was like, “I'm sorry I did that” and I'm like” it's okay like you needed you did what you needed to do.” That you thought I was right and best for her. She was a very strong woman and she just didn't want, she was ill. She didn't want to be seen as weak, which is why she pushed me.

HANNAH: Yeah. And that could very well be a reaction like “Oh, gosh, I don't want people being worried about me” or “I don't want people to pity me.” Gosh, yeah.

SUZANNE: She wanted to be remembered as a strong woman. As I knew her. She was very strong, very very, oh my God, wicked intelligent, like so wicked intelligent. So yeah, that's how she wants to be remembered. And that's what I need to, yeah. So I keep a picture of her here with me so that I can constantly remember her. And when I needed to learn, not dwell on the regret.

So I'm sharing that with you because I'm hoping that it will help somebody who might be listening today. But what's happened, so we celebrated her one-year anniversary of passing on this past weekend, and I was out with new friends. And I'm sure you're used to tears. And so it was new friends, I’m moving to a new neighborhood and my sister-in-law reached out and said “Hey, you know, let's welcome you to the neighborhood. I want you to introduce some of the people I know in the neighborhood that you're going to be moving to,” and it just happened to be on the day the one-year anniversary of the day that my friend passed.

And at dinner we were cheering and toasting and stuff, and I said some of my sister-in-law was there, I’ve known her for fifteen years, and two of her friends I've known for over a decade, casually. And then, a new friend was there. And I said, you know, “One of the things that my girl friend taught me, who passed, is how important friendship is in showing up and being there for each other and celebrating that friendship.” And so I thanked them for opening the door to friendship with me, and because I had closed myself off when my friend passed, because I thought, you know it hurts too much to open the door again. And then I thought, well, that's not life, and my friend would not be happy with me for doing that, because one of the last things that she said to me is “you're my best friend,” and she wished she'd had more fun.

HANNAH: Thank you so much for sharing. I'm tearing up to. Oh, my gosh. I also just wanted to absorb that because there's just so much there. I mean, yeah, I also had no idea that the anniversary was last week. Oh my gosh.

SUZANNE: Yeah, this is good timing. Good healing.

HANNAH: Yeah, I hope so, and I can also definitely relate to the shutting down after, because I'm learning that you can love someone with your whole heart and that your heart can expand. and you can love other people with your whole heart. Like, anatomically, it doesn't make sense, but I guess spiritually it works that way and it's weird. It's almost like I thought in order to hold onto my love for this person, I had to like bar it with locked doors to keep it in. But that's like the opposite of what you should do. So yeah, I love that you said that because I felt similarly.

SUZANNE: I totally do believe that they’re here with us. They are constantly rooting for us, and on the other side, she went from my friend to my angel. Because many things have happened this past year that I attribute to her. One of the things that we did is we joked after she was passing, and we knew it was going to happen soon and she goes, “well. I don't know if I want to leave. I still, I still have things to do.” And I said to yes. Well you have, but you've raised two beautiful men, sons into beautiful men who are kind and caring and giving and compassionate and well rounded. And you've had a successful career, a very successful career. You've contributed to the world. You've done everything you need to do here. And now you've got work on the other side.”

One son had found his soul mate and the other son was still seeking his soul mate. I said “you've got to go and help your youngest son find his soul mate and make sure that your older son is good and healthy and whole and continuing there. So you've got work on the other side. Oh, and by the way, while you're over there, if you could on the other side, send me more clients. I'd so appreciate that.” And we laughed because that was always our thing. We shared an entrepreneurship. And she laughed.

And yeah, since then it was like, oh, and another one and another one. So I think it was, you know, certainly I'm showing up, and I think I have a little help.

HANNAH: It's like her gift to you.

SUZANNE: Well that’s what we did all the time, you know, because we were networking buddies first. That's how we first met is we started going to networks together. And yeah, and then we formed a networking company, and then we became friends as a result of shared interest, et cetera. I'm just going back to the comment about the heart being able to love, and you know I study the brain. I'm very fascinated by the brain and how it works in mind set. That's the work that I do.

And one of the things that I've learned and discovered is that the brain stores all memories holographically, so a memory may be stored, ror example, the wedding that you went to when you were your sister's wedding, or something like that. It might be stored over here on this side with all weddings, and it also might be stored actually, on the left side more stored time wise, with respect to all weddings, and then then it might be stored with all family. And so it's stored holographically. there's a full memory of it over here and a full memory over here, and a full memory. So that's what holographically means. So doesn't it make sense that the heart can also store? Because that's the first brain that forms in the fetus is the heart brain.

So doesn't it make sense that the heart could store holographically love, the relationship. So we can love wholly that person, and this person, and this person with our whole heart, because it's holographic.

HANNAH: Oh, my gosh. that just blew my mind and my heart mind. My mind-mind and my heart-mind.

SUZANNE: You've heard it here first folks.

HANNAH: Wow, oh, my gosh. that could be like a whole new thought.

SUZANNE: Yeah, it's kind of neat.

HANNAH:  I'm just curious. What technically is the heart brain? Is that the physical heart, or?

SUZANNE: Good question. I don't necessarily know. I do know that we have you know the brain in our head. We have a heart brain and we have a gut brain. That's how they call it. I really have spent my time studying head brain and how it works. And it would be fun to explore the heart brain. Yeah, because they'll say things like you know, you make decisions with your head or your heart. But you know, does it feel right? Is that a heart decision? Or do we think it's right? An that's a head decision.

HANNAH: Oh, I feel like I've learned less about the heart brain because I usually here like, is it a gut choice or a head choice? I don't really. Oh, my gosh, yeah, I don't. There's a whole space here in that I'm missing. I go from my head to my stomach. That is fascinating.

So how many years ago did you meet your friend and may I ask her first name?

SUZANNE: Her name is Linda. And we met in April of 2012. So just over a decade ago, so coming up to thirteen years ago.

HANNAH: I know you said like first, you were colleagues and then you transitioned into being friends. Do you know around when, was there like a moment like, sometimes it's very gradual and it's hard to know, but I don't know if there's like a memory or a moment when you were like, “Oh, my gosh, she's my friend.”

SUZANNE: Good question. I met her in a networking group and there was five of us and we were like a master mind networking group. And I remember one day I always just, I just liked her. She was quiet and she was always so happy. She had a great smile and we got to chatting over the months. And then one day I just asked “hey, have any of you ever had a best friend?” And most of the people around again, five of us, most of the people around the room except for one said “No, never had a best friend.” had friends, but never had a best friend.

And we kind of just sort of had that moment you know, like, hmm. And then, and so I think that was the beginning of me going, “maybe I can't open the door to a best friend.” Because again, had shut it off, had been hurt by friends in the past. So that networking group, there was five of us, it was Mastermind, there was two leaders, and one of the leaders a couple months later said “Okay, so how could we make this meeting better for all of us?” And I said, “Oh, I am so glad you asked that because I think we should have values. I think we should move the meeting around. I think we should commit to each other that we show up when we say we're going to show up.” I headed this whole list of things that I've been thinking, I think that would make it really great. and I was just giving feedback to her question. and she looked at me with disdain, the founder, and she said, “Well, Susan, I think you need to go and start your own group because that's not going to work for me. I can't commit. I have clients.”

HANNAH: Oh no.

SUZANNE: I went “okay.” So the whole room went silent and I'm sitting there going okay, well. I guess I need to go. Like literally, and we were at her home. And that’s when my friend Linda said “Oh, heck no.” And we walked out of there like, fine, we're going to go start our own group. And so there was her and another friend, Caroline, and the three of us gathered in the driveway, and we're just indignant. And they were so supportive of me, And then the coming months we met and we started to come up with thoughts and philosophies around the new group that we were going to start. And so we went from this five-person mastermind group to together myself, Linda, Caroline, and then two other lovely women. We started group called Pinkpreneurs, and we went from five to a couple of thousand people in a very short period of time.

HANNAH: Woah.

SUZANNE: Because we did put commitment as a value. Fun was a value, commitment, gratitude, integrity. Those are just some of the values. And you know people really responded to that. And the woman who kicked me out about a year later, she sent me a message and said “It's clear that you're in the best place for you. And maybe, while I'm sorry that that happened, It's clear that you were really meant to lead this group.” So it was a good moment.

So yeah, so that also helped to solidify my friendship with Linda. Because, every time I would say, “Okay, what about this idea?” And she goes “Yeah, that's a good idea, Suzanne.” And she was just so supportive and so kind and just always there and just so sweet.

HANNAH: That is such a good story. I can just imagine the two of you look storming and being like. “Well, fine. We'll make our own group.”

SUZANNE: Yeah, we'll make our own group. And it was significant and still going. You know, it's quieted down a little bit, but it's still going today. It’ll be eleven years.

HANNAH: Oh, that’s a long time. Wow, and it's almost like, yeah, that's just so special because it's like the start of the group is also kind of like the strengthening of the friendship.

SUZANNE: Yeah, and when I was re-doing the banner recently there is picture of my friend Linda. She is on the banner and she'll always be there.

HANNAH: That's so sweet, oh my gosh.

SUZANNE: Yeah, her energy is in the group. So she was one of the founding members of the leaders.

HANNAH: And I love to how you said one of the core values was have fun. Because of what you mentioned earlier, how like you vowed to prioritize fun and have more fun on this earth. And I feel yeah, like, why is it so hard is an adult to do that? It’s so hard.

SUZANNE: Yeah, it's so hard. Actually, it was interesting, last summer I had a reading with a psychic and she was talking about my friend Linda and how she wanted me to have more fun. And she said, “So I see you doing something more crafty.” I said, “Oh yeah, I started to paint.” so I don't know you can see this, but just over my right shoulder is a little water color of flowers. I have a thing for flowers. I don’t know if you can tell. And she goes, “Yeah, that's your friend. She wanted you to be more creative because she always felt like she wanted to be more creative, but she didn't allow herself to be. And so she's opened the door for you to do that so that you can do it.”

And you know when I first sat down to do water color or I was doing stuff, I was like, oh my God. This is, I think why we don't do it as adults because our brain engages and the judge and the critic come out and wow, they are mean voices in your head. Whereas when we're two, three, four five, you know, we paint those things and it's fabulous, and Mommy and Daddy praise us. Whereas now, it’s like, if it's like if it's not 100% perfect or exactly like the tutorial on Youtube, it's not going to work. And so I literally, you know, would just do it and I started doing it in May of last year, and I would just do something and then put it aside, and step back and then come back a week later, a couple of days later and go “Hey. That actually looks pretty good.” And even framed it.

HANNAH: That is so cool.

[End of part 1]

HANNAH: Like I know you said, you felt like you closed yourself off to other friends. Do you feel like you closed yourself off to other parts of yourself?

SUZANNE: That’s interesting. I did not close myself off to other things. In fact, I opened up more. Although, for a short period of time, I, and I just literally yesterday, I had another friend at the same time, and she ran about the same time that my friend was passing, Linda, my other friend, and I were chatting, and I said, “look, I really need to just talk to you. Is there any way that we could spend time together?” She goes, “well, yeah, but not this weekend and not next weekend.” And I don’t know time here, and I don’t have time there, because she’s a very busy entrepreneur, running a very successful business. And I just went, “fine.” And I literally thought, you know what, fine. You know what, screw you. You’re not willing othelp me when I need help. I’ve been, I’ve dropped everything and drive to her place, which was over an hour away, and I thought, screw you.

And so I pushed her away. And it was just yesterday. So funny, the timing. So we were celebrating a year of Linda’s passing and what her life meant. Because I think that we want to take the wisdom from our friends and the joy that they’ve given us rather than block away part of ourselves. Anyways, so I turned to my friend and I said, “you know, I realized that I didn’t love the behavior that I had from you. The one time when I asked for help and you weren’t able ot provide it. But as I cast back, I thought, well, what about the time that she came and helped you remove the stitches from your, you know, when I had breast cancer and she was there removing the stitches and helping me and the gunk and…

Anyways, and I’m like, dear God, maybe I could put all of the times that she has been there for me, my current friend, and forget the one time when I asked for help she wasn’t there, because it was…It reminded me of a boss years ago who had thought I was great until I mean one typo in one document, and then I was dead to him. And never gave me extra work and never, you know. It was like, really?? Come on! And I realized I was behaving the same way towards my friend. You know, she did one thing that I didn't like because it was so tied up with my grief around my friend passing that I just…Even more again, and, in protecting myself. But was I really protecting myself by pushing away somebody who had been there for me for years, who I've known for almost a decade as well? Wait a second. Maybe I could relent a little bit and be a little bit more forgiving, a little bit more kind.

HANNAH: Wow, And you met with her yesterday?

SUZANNE: Yeah, yesterday. Yeah, and I even shared that with her, I said, “You know, I realize I've been doing that” and she was totally forgiving and kind and compassionate, sweet as she always is. So the friendship is better. And you know, I still get to work on myself. It's still an opportunity to allow, because I was thinking about another friend. And I thought, I haven't heard from that friend in a while. Like, it's up to me to reach out. I get so busy in my business, what's happening in my own life, that I forget. And it’s like, no, no, no.

I think that's the real gift of having a friend that we've lost, that we're grieving, that we can make the relationships that we have here matter even more, and we get to take time to build those relationships with love and compassion and kindness.

HANNAH: That is so beautiful. It makes so much sense, and in some ways it's the opposite of what our first visceral reaction is, which is to pull away. And I definitely did that. It's hard to know in hindsight what's connected and what's just happenstance. So I look back and I'm like, “Did that happen because my friend died?” Did everything that I do after she died because my friend died? Sometimes it's hard to figure that out, but I moved after she died, I moved cities, and pretty much kind of just left. I uprooted myself completely. Left all my friends. Went to a city where I knew nobody. No, actually, I did know one person. I knew one person. So I like physically, emotionally, spiritually was like “I got to start over.” And it took a few years for any roots, because it takes a long time to grow roots. And so for the first few years of being in Chicago, the new city, I was so lonely. Because uh, duh, I just moved to a place where I don't know anybody. Like that was my own doing

SUZANNE: And it was protection because you had been so hurt. That's totally normal. That's what we do. That's how the brain works, is we want to protect ourselves, so we withdraw. We cocoon. You know, as you're talking about it, I know it's totally different. You lost a dear friend, as did I. Um, but I'm thinking about it. It's likened to, if we could, when we lose an animal, a pet. There's a lot of grief. And it's on what Dr. Fritz Perls talks about as gestalt. So any time an event happens around anger, it wraps around like a pearl in an oyster, creates this heavy, heavy gestalt of anger. And it's the same for grief, because Grief is a deep negative emotion. So these gestalts, whether you lose a family member, a dear friend or a pet or even a relationship, you know all of those things. It's all around grief. And so that gestalt gets heavier and heavier and heavier, and so then one little thing happens and it fires up every single time we've ever had grief from our past, right? And then it becomes overwhelming. And so the brain can't handle all of that. It's like “woah, too much too much, too much, too much emotion, too much. I need to still function.”

And so we do what we can to protect ourselves. And so you know, even the pet example. I'm thinking, is like I did it with my pet. I had a cat, and when she passed, I was like, I’m never going to get another pet because I don't want to open myself up to that hurt.

HANNAH: Oh, yeah.

SUZANNE: And I I was doing it with friendship. I was like “well, I'm never going to get another pet.” “I'm never going to get another friend.” I'm never going to. Well, that's not life.

HANNAH:  Yeah, it’s not.

SUZANNE: So I have another cat. Just you know. The door is locked, so he can’t come in today while we’re recording. But yeah. But now I celebrate him like I used to resent, you know, cleaning out his kitty litter or having to take him to the vet or having to, you know, oh God he wants more attention. And now having lost an animal in the past, now it's like “oh, excuse me.” Now it's celebrating all those moments. Yay, I get to clean out his kitty litter. Yay, I get to you, you know, have him lie on me in front of the TV. I get to have his love. And we can do that with our friends as well.

You know, he or she is annoying me right now, but oh my God, how fortunate am I to have this person in my life.

HANNAH: Yeah, yeah, it's like, like you said, too, where after the loss you decide to deepen the friendships that you have and appreciate them even more. That's such wisdom. And I think I'm heading in that direction and I hope I continue to head in that direction, but it took several years. Yeah, I wonder if part of that is just the age in which you experienced the loss, because I was pretty young, so not fully mature yet. I was 23, so that’s very young, I think.

SUZANNE: Yeah, I was going to say that I thought “Oh, Suzanne, don't say that.” But yeah, I think that's true. You know, I know when I was in my 20s and 30s, when somebody did me wrong, they were dead to me. And now with maturity and age and some spiritual healing and mental healing and emotional healing, and all of the work it's like “Okay, wait a second. What is there to have learned from this situation? What could I do differently in the future? How can I forgive myself rather than just shut that door?”

HANNAH: Do you, have you felt like people in general are more dismissive of a loss of a friend?

SUZANNE: Yes. I couldn’t believe it. The day after my friend passed, we had already planned a two-week vacation. And so we got on the plane and we went, my husband and I, and we invited my mom. And afterwards, I was just sitting outside and having a moment where I was just a little bit sad. And my mom looked over and she goes, “what’s going on with you?” And I said, “well, mom, I’m thinking about my friend.”

And she goes, “oh, who?” I said, “mom, my friend who passed yesterday,” or you know, two days ago or whatever. It was very, very recent. And she says, “oh right. Oh, I didn’t realize you were that close.” I said, “yeah.” And then not too long ago, several months ago, another friend said, “who is this person again? I’ve never even heard you mention her.” And I’m like, “you’re kidding me, right?” Because she’s been in my life far longer than you have. Yeah, it was really interested. It was almost dismissed. But if it had been a significant other or a parent or a family member, it would have had a lot more. Yeah, it was interesting.

HANNAH: Yeah, yeah. That’s so frustrating to me. And it’s also frustrating that people feel indignant when they’re like, “but you’ve never mentioned them! Why have I not heard of them?” As if what they know about us determines what’s important to us. And it’s also so hard to keep track of who you tell about who and who you tell about what. So no matter who the other person is, there are going to be parts of me that you don’t know about. And if I tell you that I’m sad and that this person meant a lot to me, you should just believe that and accept it wholeheartedly.

SUZANNE: It blow my mind too. It really does. You know, my father, many, many, many years ago, I was all upset because Kathy didn’t want to go to a move with me. I was in grade 11 or 12. And he said to me, “Suzanne, not every friend is going to want to do everything that you want to do when you want to do it. And just like a diamond has many facets or any gemstone has many facets, so too do you. And you have friends who respond to the multi facets of you.” Some may connect to this, this, and this. Some may only connect to that. And so, you know, you can’t just have one friend and expect one friend to want to do everything and be, you know, complete.

So we get to have many friends. And I always thought that was just incredibly wise. So I started seeking multiple friends. But I also still held myself back. If I could look at that, like there was still many times when I would really hold myself back from being in deep friendships. And it’s interesting because my absolute favorite quote in this world is by Anais Nin. And it is, “Each friend represents a world in us, a world possibly not born until they arrive, and it is only by this meeting that a new world is born.”

HANNAH: Woah. I love that quote.

SUZANNE: I thought you might.

HANNAH: Oh my gosh, and I think it's so true. I think that friends can awaken a part of us because yeah, it's like we can be our full selves or that facet of ourselves, that facet of the diamond around them, that maybe we can't be around other people.

SUZANNE: Yeah, absolutely

HANNAH: Or maybe we'll discover whole new facets of our diamond.

SUZANNE: Exactly, totally.

HANNAH: That is so cool. What do you feel like was awakened in you with Linda?

SUZANNE: Creativity, fun gratitude. Those are the lessons that I learned from my friend because she practiced a lot of gratitude. And she introduced me back. She reminded me to have fun. It feels good to honor her.

HANNAH: And thank you for sharing about her like. I feel like I got to know her a little bit, y’know?

SUZANNE: Yeah. I remember one of our last conversations. It was just towards the end of COVID. And I said, “oh, Apparently, here I live in Canada. So apparently here in Canada, the governments are starting to give out the free tests. I've got to find a way to get the free tests.” She goes, “oh, Susan, those are at the liquor store and you need to do this and you need to…” And I'm like, “How do you know?” And this was just one of the many things she would continue to educate me on, and I said, “How do you know all of these things?” She goes. “Oh, come on.”

Yeah, so funny. So she just, she made fun of herself and was kind. And one of the biggest things that was…It was interesting for me to post on Facebook, you know, a celebration of her life and a notification of her passing. And the comments over and over and over was her smile could light up a room. And that's how she wants to be remembered.